In order to manage that
In order to manage that
«to» vs. «in order to»
Derselbe
Senior Member
When do you use «in order to» and when do you use just «to».
E.g.:
(in order) to do X, we need more Y.
(in order) to answer the question, I need more information.
(in order) to file a lawsuit, you need to fill out this form.
What if we change the sentence structure?
I need more information (in order) to answer the question.
owlman5
Senior Member
Senior Member
Derselbe
Senior Member
owlman5
Senior Member
lisa687
New Member
tdbostick
New Member
@lisa687 Nope, they both have slightly different nuances. For example:
«I need your garbage can to take the garbage out.» (Implies I want the garbage can to take the garbage out, as if it were a person, and thereby makes no sense.)
«I need your garbage can in order to take the garbage out.» (Implies that the speaker will utilize the garbage can for waste removal.)
Andygc
Senior Member
@lisa687 Nope, they both have slightly different nuances. For example:
«I need your garbage can to take the garbage out.» (Implies I want the garbage can to take the garbage out, as if it were a person, and thereby makes no sense.)
«I need your garbage can in order to take the garbage out.» (Implies that the speaker will utilize the garbage can for waste removal.)
I disagree. That difference certainly does not exist in BE. The suggested implicit meaning in the first sentence is wholly context dependent.
eyeofhorus
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
I have some sympathy with tdbostick’s point of view. I have used ‘in order to’ on this forum when explaining something to a non-native speaker. I did it consciously because I was aware of the type of misunderstanding that is possible and is illustrated by tdbostick’s first example.
‘to’ has several functions in English whereas ‘in order to’ has only one. It is useful therefore to dispel ambiguity.
JungKim
Senior Member
Andygc
Senior Member
JustKate
Senior Member
I have some sympathy with tdbostick’s point of view. I have used ‘in order to’ on this forum when explaining something to a non-native speaker. I did it consciously because I was aware of the type of misunderstanding that is possible and is illustrated by tdbostick’s first example.
‘to’ has several functions in English whereas ‘in order to’ has only one. It is useful therefore to dispel ambiguity.
Wordsmyth
Senior Member
.
There’s sometimes the possibility of using a comma (or a pause if speaking) rather than «in order to», to avoid ambiguity.
In tdbostick’s » I need your garbage can to take the garbage out «, if you really thought context wasn’t enough, you could write » I need your garbage can, to take the garbage out «. The comma (or pause) serves the same purpose as «in order to». The comma removes the possibility that garbage can might be the subject of to take.
Similarly, in Kate’s » It’s a good idea to evaluate the phrase when you use it in order to determine if it’s really needed or not «, it could be » It’s a good idea to evaluate the phrase when you use it, to determine if it’s really needed or not «.
for some reason that I can’t explain, » I need John, to answer the question » still sounds potentially ambiguous to me. The comma separates John from to answer, so should preclude John from being the subject of the verb, yet somehow that doesn’t seem enough — perhaps, as JungKim says, because the first meaning is the most common interpretation, so it’s what I’m expecting. So «in order to» could be useful there. For those who really dislike it, there’s another way: » To answer the question, I need John «.
neal41
Senior Member
e2efour
Senior Member
1. The surgeon changed his plan in order to give the patient a general anaesthetic.
2. The surgeon changed his plan to give the patient a general anaesthetic.
By removing «in order» in sentence 1 the meaning is completely changed.
tdbostick
New Member
I disagree. That difference certainly does not exist in BE. The suggested implicit meaning in the first sentence is wholly context dependent.
Perhaps my example wasn’t as clear as it could have been. Yes, context would dictate that garbage cans can’t perform actions like humans. Nonetheless there are other sentences where this could be confusing:
If there’s a difference between BE and AE in this regard, I’m not aware of it.
tdbostick
New Member
I hope the patient didn’t die due to incorrect editing 😉
This is a good example why ‘in order to’ is sometimes needed.
e2efour
Senior Member
tdbostick
New Member
Unless the examples with commas are used in dialogue (i.e. wrapped in quotation marks), where the speaker actually pauses where the comma occurs, I would strongly recommend against using a comma in a sentence such as «I need your garbage can to take the garbage out.»
I still hold the opinion that both the clearest and most succinct reading of this sentence is «I need your garbage can in order to take the garbage out.»
Wordsmyth
Senior Member
On reflection I assume, tdb, that you intended «they» as a gender-neutral singular, referring to the supervisor. However, I first read it in its basic plural sense, referring to «people» (employees). I guess e2efour did too (#19). Now there’s a sentence that needs rewriting to avoid ambiguity!
Wordsmyth
Senior Member
I’m being slightly flippant, because I’m sure this example is a rarity (and it doesn’t in any way invalidate Biffo’s point that «in order to» can be useful to dispel ambiguity), but here’s a case where the words «in order to» could actually cause ambiguity!
In the Wikipedia article about the TV series, Broadchurch, we can read «Broadchurch, however, was shot in order to keep the identity of the murderer a secret».
In isolation, that seems to suggest that someone named Broadchurch (who presumably knew who the murderer was) was shot for the purpose of keeping the murderer’s identity secret.
Of course, context saves the day: «Very few scripted television programs are filmed in the order episodes are seen on the air. [. ] Broadchurch, however, was shot in order to keep the identity of the murderer a secret until the end of the production.»