It is also worth mentioning that
It is also worth mentioning that
It is worth mention that / It is worth mentioning that
marsbeing
Senior Member
Of the two sentences below, which one is correct?
It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.
It is worth mentioning that he is also a very experienced writer.
Andygc
Senior Member
» It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.» is a correct but somewhat outdated way of saying this.
» It is worth mentioning that he is also a very experienced writer.» is the much more common form of this sentence.
marsbeing
Senior Member
@Andygc.
Thanks for your very useful explanation. One more question: does «mentioning» have to take an object? The dictionary says «mention» is an transitive verb.
Andygc
Senior Member
Packard
Senior Member
Thomas1
Senior Member
Andygc
Senior Member
Andygc
Senior Member
Thomas1
Senior Member
marsbeing
Senior Member
Andygc
Senior Member
Thomas1, it was a bit of a struggle finding that book (The Hypocrisy of Hollywood: How the People in Hollywood Hurt the Causes They Try to Champion by Andra Gault) as your link to Google Books Poland didn’t work for me. When I got to the book, it was pretty obvious that Andra Gault doesn’t use standard English and is probablg not a native English speaker (although all things might be possible). Part of the book can be read here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Hypocrisy-Hollywood-People-Champion-ebook/dp/B0057YJ26W. I’d go so far as to suggest that her use of English is poor and the half dozen pages of the book I have looked at are barely readable.
PS. If you want us to read the thread you have quoted, how about giving us a link?
Considering that people are well known in Hollywood and have money, that want to travel to places that are nice and that give the privacy that they need so they do not get bombarded by strangers who want their attention for something.
The items that are put into the swag are usually top of the line products in which there was a certain amount of trouble getting.
It is funny that with “Avatar” James Cameron decided to get all into the environment considering other things related to him that would show otherwise.
Therefore, the Author has try to foresee the arguments being made by the Reader and have come up with her own arguments in response to the Reader’s arguments.
Packard
Senior Member
There are some indications that Gault’s book was published direct-to-e-book.
Except for books that are vanity published, all book writers benefit from the careful editing of a professional editor. I suspect that even the most respected novelists would seem less so without that benefit.
Thomas1
Senior Member
It begins a new paragraph. Is this particular sentence «barely readable»?
PS. If you want us to read the thread you have quoted, how about giving us a link?
PS: The link is already there in my last message (post#9). There’s a little icon (two triangles in a dark blue rectangular) next to the user’s name. If you click on it, it will redirect you to the source. Just in case, I’m also giving a direct link: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?p=11020264#post11020264
2) I was in a very similar situation to the one found in the thread I’ve just mentioned (worth to do vs. worth doing) a long time ago, and was also corrected in the same way by a native American English speaker.
3) I didn’t take long to find these through a Google search:
[A:] a) It’s worth to mention
[A:] Thanks But after «worth» is always a verb in continous tense?
[B:] I’m not a grammar expert. But «worth it to» sounds OK to me (a native speaker) [. ]
http://forum.dict.pl/viewtopic.php?t=11639&view=next
I feel that it is worth it to mention that the lead vocal of «Jack Straw» was originally sung only by Bob Weir.
http://artsites.ucsc.edu/GDead/agdl/jstraw.html
I’m not trying to be deliberately argumentative, but clearly, something doesn’t add up here. So what makes «it is worth it to mention» not normal English?
dreamlike
Senior Member
I think part of the issue might be the fact that «It’s worth mentioning» has become some entrenched in some speakers’ minds that any other way of saying it will be frowned upon by them. I’m struggling to understand what’s wrong with «it’s worth it to mention» in terms of grammar, probably it’s grammaticaly fine, but it does sound off even to my non-native ears. And it’s certainly not frequent.
Chasint
Senior Member
» It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.» is a correct but somewhat outdated way of saying this.
» It is worth mentioning that he is also a very experienced writer.» is the much more common form of this sentence.
As a great fan of Google ngram, I did the following search:
Andygc
Senior Member
Is this particular sentence «barely readable»?
I’m not trying to be deliberately argumentative, but clearly, something doesn’t add up here. So what makes «it is worth it to mention» not normal English?
It is the book that is barely readable, not an individual sentence. It has major errors of syntax and grammar (and the content is pretty dire, too).
I have already provided you with the information that this structure does not exist in the Google ngram database, or in the two principal corpora of modern English. You can check that for yourself. What more evidence do you want that it is not normal English?
PS dreamlike has a point. Things may be grammatical, but abnormal usage. That is what lay behind the disagreement in this t hread: The flight’s delay was notified [notify in passive]
Andygc
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
I presume that is why it scrapes along at the bottom of the list in Google ngram as shown below.
WildWest
Senior Member
I have never heard a bare verb used right after the word worth, but I can’t say a single word about the incorrectness of it. I will just keep preferring the form «worth doing».
This subject is worth talking about, though.
Andygc
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
It is worth thinking about.
It is worth thinking about.
It is worth think about.
It is worth doing.
It is worth do.
It is worth looking at.
It is worth look at.
It is worth seeing.
It is worth see.
It is worth mentioning.
It is worth mention.
What’s the difference?
___________________________________________________________________
Note
Contrast the above examples with the following:
It is worth looking.
It is worth a look.
It is worth mentioning.
It is worth a mention.
Andygc
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
Even educated people make mistakes. You haven’t addressed my reasoning at all.
«Worth a mention» makes sense. «Worth mentioning» makes sense. I can parse those to my own satisfaction.
The crucial question for me is: How do you parse the sentence «It is worth mention»?
I am genuinely interested because I can’t see a valid way to do it.
Schimmelreiter
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
I have no problem with that, it is a different case. I can demonstrate as follows:
A.
He made mention of it.
He made mentioning of it.
This case works with the uncountable noun but not the gerund.
B.
It is worth mention.
It is worth mentioning.
This case works with the gerund (and, I say, not with the uncountable noun).
Do you agree there is a difference?
kalamazoo
Senior Member
Chasint
Senior Member
Thanks. However my argument is that this author and others are making a careless grammatical error as a result of thoughtlessly confusing two other expressions. This usage is comparatively rare. I am asking for a valid grammatical justification for the sentence.
I have already explained why it doesn’t work in my previous post. I am hoping someone will argue with my reasoning rather than just give isolated examples.
WildWest
Senior Member
I guess the whole problem is arising from mishearing the sentence and it leads us to one of the earlier interpretations of Biffo’s. In this case, we have only two possibilities:
It’s worth mentioning
It’s worthy of mention
Of course, I’m a non-native and not able to dig up too much after some point but that’s what I think.
Schimmelreiter
Senior Member
Let’s take consideration and to consider.
Both these sentences are correct:
This is worth consideration.
This is worth considering.
With mention having a dual role as noun and verb, the above are similar to these sentences:
This is worth mention.
This is worth mentioning.
bearing in mind that mention, like consideration, need not be used with an indefinite article (to make mention of something).
Chasint
Senior Member
Let’s take consideration and to consider.
Both these sentences are correct:
This is worth consideration.
This is worth considering.
With mention having a dual role as noun and verb, the above are similar to these sentences:
This is worth mention.
This is worth mentioning.
bearing in mind that mention, like consideration, need not be used with an indefinite article (to make mention of something).
You make an interesting point. Again I say that this is not comparing like with like.
1. Let us take «to be worth» in its most literal sense. For example, «This information is worth five pounds.» The implication is that we are willing to pay five pounds to a person or organisation and receive some information in return.
2. Now let us extend the meaning. We talk about paying attention. «This book is worth my attention.» The implication is that we pay attention to the book and receive literary enjoyment from it in return.
3. A similar idiom applies to consideration. We give our consideration. «This book is worth my consideration.» We give our consideration to the book in return for the informational value it provides.
4. The problem comes when we try to use «mention». «This book is worth my mention.» (??). I pay mention to this book. (??) I give mention to this book. (??) None of these work in English. We cannot offer ‘mention’ in return for something we desire. Therefore ‘mention’ has no worth. We might say to the author, «I am addressing some students next week, I will give your book a mention.» We cannot in my estimation say » «I am addressing some students next week, I will give your book mention.» Nobody says this. It is just wrong.
I hope that answers your point.
Andygc
Senior Member
Thus we have an expression which has a long pedigree (since the 1840s) which has been used by many literate writers. It is much less comonly used than other expressions and is, therefore an error. On the other hand, we have another expression which has a very short pedigree (since the 1950s) which is even less commonly used by writers, but which is not an error. Is that a convincing argument?
«Mention» here is a noun. «Worth mention» is a phrase. It functions as an adjective. Hence «it is worth mention». What is worth mention? That he is also a very experienced writer.
Hence we have «It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.»
Compare this with the identical structure (using an adjective rather than an adjectival phrase) «It is apparent that he is also a very experienced writer.»
Chasint
Senior Member
I see three main points of contention with Andygc’s last post. I hope thread readers will bear with me if I deal with each separately.
That is not true. Examining what I said in #18, it is clear that my argument was unformed at that point and based on my undisclosed thoughts strengthened by the observation that it looked like a hybrid of two other phrases. I was dipping my toe in the water so to speak in order to see whether others agreed. I then commented that the ngram trace might be a result of this ‘error’, not that it proved there was an error. My real evidence has appeared in later posts.
I apologise if I seem to be nitpicking but I am attempting to make my argument against «worth mention» as precise and thorough as possible. I’m being prescriptive but occasionally a prescriptive approach to grammar is important (my opinion).
Note: Later, when I address one of the other points I shall indeed use ngram evidence in support of my argument. I just haven’t done so yet.
Chasint
Senior Member
. «Mention» here is a noun. «Worth mention» is a phrase. It functions as an adjective. Hence «it is worth mention». What is worth mention? That he is also a very experienced writer.
Hence we have «It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.»
.
I can’t see the force of this argument. Let me substitute the word ‘rabbit’.
«Rabbit». is a noun. «Worth rabbit» is a phrase. It functions as an adjective. Hence «it is worth rabbit». etc.
Am I being frivolous? No I am not. The fact that «mention» is a noun does not give weight to the idea that «worth mention» is a valid adjectival phrase. Andygc’s argument assumes part of the very thing that it is attempting to prove, namely that «worth mention» is correct.
To be crystal clear, I am not simply objecting to the phrase «It is worth mention» (which seems more ridiculous every time I see it) I am also objecting to the collocation «worth mention.» In almost any context that I can imagine it is meaningless. I gave some of my reasoning in #30 point 4.
______________________________________________________________________
Note: There may be exceptional, artificial contexts where «worth mention» makes sense even to me.
e2efour
Senior Member
Can we not agree that worth mention is a rare phrase, although it may have been used more often in the past? I have never heard it, although I have seen worth a mention.
Whatever its status, it can hardly be recommended to the OP.
Chasint
Senior Member
Of the two sentences below, which one is correct?
It is worth mention that he is also a very experienced writer.
It is worth mentioning that he is also a very experienced writer.
We were not asked which sentence is preferable in modern day English, we were asked which one of the sentences is correct. That is where the disagreement lies. Andygc says the first sentence is correct. I say it is not correct.
_____________________________________________________
Note
Andygc’s main argument rests on the phrase having been used by a number of educated literate authors. This is a descriptive approach to grammar. However he also thinks the phrase is grammatically and semantically acceptable.
My main argument is that the phrase is sufficiently ungrammatical and aesthetically repugnant that it is a case where prescriptivism should overrule descriptivism. I also think that by using the phrase the authors in question have shown a chink in their literacy and good judgment by propagating a hybrid phrase that doesn’t make sense.
I’m sure Andygc will correct me if I have misrepresented his point of view.
Schimmelreiter
Senior Member
wandle
Senior Member
Andygc
Senior Member
Indeed, my main argument rests on the phrase having been used by a wide range of authors and, indeed, before the earliest mention in the ngram I linked to earlier. They include Prof Simon Swain of Warwick University (published by Oxford University Press 1996), Giraldus Cambrensis in approx 1200 (Cambridge University Press), Justin Harvey Smith published in 1903, Prof Samantha Kelly of Rutgers published 2003, Ernest Shackleton in his account of his last voyage, Prof Stephanie Trigg (Professor of English Literature and Head of the English and Theatre Program, University of Melbourne, Australia) and John Pinkerton (Scottish antiquarian 1758-1826). It was also used in The Constitutional History of England: A Course of Lectures by Frederic William Maitland and Herbert Albert Laurens Fisher (1908), and in Leigh Hunt’s London Journal of 1834.
I’m inclined to the view that this erudite group, and many more, chose to write «worth mention» as an adjectival phrase and did not make a mistake. I do not consider it ungrammatical. That Biffo finds it «aesthetically repugnant» is as irrelevant to this thread as are rabbits.
PS Ref wandle’s post which appeared while I wrote. The authors I have mentioned did not use it to point to minor points. They used it to point to important points in their writing or occasionally used it negatively as in «it is not worth mention».
Схема развернутого письменного высказывания с элементами рассуждения на основе таблицы/схемы для подготовки к ЕГЭ по английскому языку в 2022 г.
(развёрнутое письменное высказывание с элементами рассуждения на основе таблицы/диаграммы)
От участника экзамена требуется: проанализировать информацию, представленную в виде таблицы или диаграммы, по определенной теме проектной работы; вербализовать эту информацию, описав основные тенденции и проведя уместные сравнения; обрисовать одну-две проблемы, которые могут возникнуть в этой сфере, и предложить пути их решения, а также в заключении кратко выразить свое мнение по предложенной теме.
Время, рекомендуемое на выполнение данного задания, составляет 60 минут.
Перед выполнением задания 40 важно внимательно ознакомиться с коммуникативным заданием, обратить внимание на ограничения по времени и объему и разумно распределить 60 минут, рекомендованные на выполнение этого задания. Надо обязательно выделить до 5 минут на анализ задания, внимательно прочитать предложенные темы проектов, таблицу/диаграмму и план, обдумать, какая проблематика скрыта в каждом из заданий, мысленно подобрать возможное содержание вашей работы по каждой из предложенных тем проектов (цель и задачи проекта, два-три примера опросов с приведенными данными, проблемы, которые могут возникнуть, и т.д.). Важно выбрать не ту тему, которая покажется более интересной с первого взгляда, а ту, которая является наиболее выигрышной для участника экзамена с точки зрения содержания, а также демонстрации лексического запаса и диапазона владения грамматикой английского языка. Сделав выбор, не следует колебаться и сомневаться, иначе можно потерять много времени и не выполнить задание до конца. Завершив эту работу, необходимо проверить написанное с точки зрения содержания: все ли требуемые пункты раскрыты, логично ли построена работа, раскрыта ли тема.
В плане языкового оформления высказывания необходимо помнить, что это задание высокого уровня сложности.
Для того чтобы продемонстрировать высокий уровень владения английским языком, надо использовать синонимы, антонимы, лексику уровня В2, более сложные грамматические конструкции: пассивный залог, условные предложения, сложное подлежащее Complex Subject), сложное дополнение (Complex Object) и т.п.
В новом формате развернутого письменного высказывания действуют те же требования: использовать в работе соответствующие средства логической связи; лексически, грамматически и орфографически правильно оформлять текст, придерживаясь правильного стиля (в данном случае нейтрального). Это означает, что в развернутом ответе нельзя использовать:
1) риторические вопросы;
2) разговорные выражения и конструкции типа Let’s … (Let us и Let me – нейтральный стиль);
3) сниженную лексику типа folks (people)…
4) стяженные (краткие) формы глаголов (I’m, he’s, don’t, aren’t, can’t, didn’t, I’d like; исключение – needn’t).
Comment on the data in the table / in the diagram and give your personal opinion on the subject of the project:
It is also worth mentioning that
Выберите только ОДНО из двух предложенных заданий (40.1 или 40.2). Укажите его номер и выполните согласно данному плану. В ответе на задание 40 числительные пишите цифрами.
40.1 Imagine that you are doing a project on what field children want to work in. You have collected some data on the subject (see the table below).
Comment on the data in the table and give your personal opinion on the subject of the project.